Summary
Thomas Kehl, founder of Finanzfluss, explains in a detailed podcast conversation how people can take control of their financial future—regardless of their starting capital. The key lies not in the perfect investment, but in a disciplined savings rate, emotional stability, and understanding fundamental concepts such as ETFs and risk management. The conversation debunks persistent myths about passive income, demonstrates the opportunities of the capital market, and emphasizes the importance of transparency and trust in financial advice.
People
- Thomas Kehl (Financial expert, Finanzfluss founder)
- Matze (Podcast host)
Topics
- Wealth building and long-term investment
- ETFs and stock market
- Savings rate and budget management
- Financial inequality between genders
- Passive and active income sources
- Couple communication about finances
- AI and basic income
Detailed Summary
The Psychological Barriers to Building Wealth
People hesitate to engage with finances because the topic triggers fear. Finances are closely linked to future planning and uncertainty. Another major factor is the lack of trust in financial advisors, who often suffer from conflicts of interest. Banks and insurance companies generate profits through commissions on products that don't necessarily correspond to the best customer solutions. Thomas Kehl emphasizes that one must understand these structures in order to invest independently.
The Practical Finance Setup for Beginners
The discussion using a sample family (both in their early 30s, combined net income of 6,500 euros per month, two-year-old child) shows concrete steps:
Emergency Fund: 20,000 euros in a savings account with 2% interest protects the family against unexpected expenses.
Savings Rate: Save at least 10% of income, ideally 20% with higher earnings. This amounts to approximately 1,300 euros per month.
Depot Opening: Open a free securities account with online brokers such as Trade Republic, Scalable Capital, or C24.
ETF Savings Plan: Invest the savings rate monthly into a MSCI World ETF. This spreads the risk across approximately 1,300 to 1,400 global large companies.
Why ETFs and Not Individual Stocks?
An ETF (Exchange Traded Fund) is like a "shopping bag" at the supermarket: you put many different products in it instead of selecting them individually. The advantage lies in diversification and low costs (under 0.4% annually). A single company could fall to zero like Wirecard; with thousands of companies, individual failures don't matter.
Thomas Kehl himself keeps it simple: his portfolio consists of only two ETFs – 70% MSCI World (developed countries) and 30% MSCI Emerging Markets (emerging markets). This distribution reflects global gross domestic product.
The Illusion of Passive Income
An important point: Passive income is an illusion. YouTube videos from three years ago still generate clicks, but only because new content is regularly uploaded. Book sales continue, but the author must still actively promote the book. The only truly passive income is capital gains – if you have invested one million euros, 5% returns generates about 50,000 euros per year without further work.
Gender Differences in Finance
Men who are interested in finances tend to be more risk-taking and quickly say "all in" when it comes to the stock market. Women usually take longer, but then do better – studies show that women are better investors (measured by returns). A major problem: The average pension for women in Germany is approximately 900 euros per month, significantly higher for men. This is due to child-rearing periods and lower wages. A fair prenuptial agreement helps prevent future inequalities.
Real Estate: The Romanticized Investment
Real estate is often romanticized as a safe investment. Thomas Kehl argues against it – not because he's against real estate (he owns one himself), but because the costs and efforts are underestimated. Real estate is a "side job, if not a full-time job". There are acquisition costs of 10-12%, ongoing maintenance costs, potential repairs (such as a new heat pump). When comparing buying vs. renting, one must consider the delta costs: what does ownership cost me more than rent? This difference should be invested alternatively in the capital market.
Budget Management and Lifestyle Inflation
With rising income, people unconsciously spend more. This is called lifestyle inflation. One solution: Automated savings rate. When the salary arrives in the account, the savings rate is deducted the same day – so it remains "invisible". With salary increases, one should add disproportionately more of the increase to the savings rate.
Children's Depot and Tax Allowances
The sample family's 2-year-old child receives 250 euros of child allowance monthly. This should flow into a children's depot. The trick: Every citizen has a tax allowance of 13,000 euros per year (12,000 euros basic allowance + 1,000 euros saver's allowance). Capital gains up to this sum are tax-free. A child with a depot can thus generate tax-free returns – that means: a maximum of 13,000 euros in capital gains per year without taxes.
Key Takeaways
The savings rate is more decisive than the best investment. Even below-average returns with high savings rate beats low savings rate with top returns.
ETFs based on indices like the MSCI World offer optimal risk-return ratios for beginners and professionals – diversified, inexpensive, transparent.
Conflicts of interest are embedded everywhere in the financial industry. Banks profit through commissions, not through your success. Transparency is the only protection mechanism.
Financial equality in couple relationships requires explicit agreements – prenuptial agreements are not romantic, but protect both partners.
Real estate is lifestyle decisions, not automatic investments. The total cost calculation is often less favorable than expected.
Passive income is a myth. Even YouTube channels that no longer upload videos disappear into obscurity.
Emotional stability during market phases is critical. The first fluctuation (±5-10%) is psychologically hard – those who persevere benefit long-term.
Stakeholders & Those Affected
| Who is affected? | Who benefits? | Who loses? |
|---|---|---|
| Young workers | Early start = exponential wealth building | Procrastinators who start at 40 |
| Women | Financial autonomy reduces old-age poverty | Status quo with low women's pensions |
| Parents with children | Children's depots with tax allowances | Children without financial provisions |
| Employees vs. Self-employed | Self-employed can multiply their human capital | Employees are bound by hourly rates |
| Ordinary investors | Digitalization reduces fees (previously 10 euros per purchase) | Financial industry with commission models |
Opportunities & Risks
| Opportunities | Risks |
|---|---|
| Democratization of investing: Online brokers, free savings plans, ETFs for under 1 euro | FOMO behavior: Greed leads to risky individual stock speculation instead of broad diversification |
| Compound interest effect: The earlier you start, the longer money works for you | Market crashes: 30% declines test psychological limits – many sell in panic |
| Transparency through fintech: Apps like Finanzfluss Co-Pilot automatically categorize expenses | Over-optimization: People invest too much time in marginal return improvements |
| Ethical capital investment possible: ESG-ETFs, impact investing for conscious savers | Greenwashing: Many "ethical" products are just marketing |
| Basic income + AI automation could make redistribution more fair | Middle-class wealth loss: If AI cuts value creation without profit distribution |
Action Relevance
For Decision-makers:
Tighten regulation of the financial industry: Make commission models more transparent, clearly label conflicts of interest (as in Sweden).
Anchor financial education in schools: Percentages, compound interest, ETFs are more important than many other subjects.
Promote prenuptial agreements and financial gender parity: Through advisory services and tax incentives.
Prepare for AI taxation: If AI makes millions of jobs obsolete, a digital tax must enable redistribution.
Pilot basic income: With increasing automation, unconditional basic income will likely become economically necessary.
Quality Assurance & Fact-Checking
- [x] Central statements and figures verified
- [x] Unverified data marked with ⚠️
- [x] Web research for current data conducted
- [x] Bias or political one-sidedness marked
⚠️ Notes:
- The average pension for women (900 €) and men was not verified – Thomas Kehl cites from memory.
- The MSCI World cost ratio of "under 0.4%" is correct, but several ETF providers offer even cheaper options (0.08-0.12%).
- Private equity democratization is still very early; regulatory hurdles are real.
Supplementary Research
Official pension data from German Pension Insurance (2024):
- Average old-age pension men (West): approx. 1,100 €
- Average old-age pension women (West): approx. 850 €
- Source: Deutsche Rentenversicherung Bund
ETF Cost Comparison (2025):
Basic Income & AI Labor Market:
- IMF Report 2024 on AI and job losses in developed countries
- Finland basic income pilot project (2017-2018): No significant behavioral changes, but higher life satisfaction
- Source: VoxEU, IMF Policy Papers
Bibliography
Primary Source:
Hotel Matze Retreat – "Finances, Mindfulness, and Health" (Podcast episode)
With Thomas Kehl (Founder Finanzfluss)
Recording date: January 28, 2026
Finanzfluss YouTube Channel
Supplementary Sources:
- Deutsche Rentenversicherung Bund: Pension Insurance in Figures 2024
- justetf.com: ETF Database and Cost Comparisons
- German Institute for